taigu "Hokkchu"

taigu "Hokkchu" 
Andrew hiann,
Li kong e eng-kai si Su-tian e kai-soeh.
M-ku goa e lau-su, chiu-si Tai-lam Sin-hak-inn e Tinn Ji-giok bok-su(kin-ni
80 hoe)
ka3 goa m-thang iong convention. I kong he piau-si bai2 e mih-kiann.
I tek-piat ka goa kong pun-lai i ma m-chai. Choe-kin chit-e goa-kok lang ka
i kong chiah chai.
Tinn bok-su e-hiau kong 5 kok e oe. Kiam kong i e thiann m-tioh?
Goa khak-sit m-chai.
To-sia li ka goa kong.
Babuza

----- Original Message -----
From: Andrew T. Kuo 
To: Hokkchu 
Cc: 
Sent: Monday, July 30, 2001 9:11 AM
Subject: Re: å¿ç¶/ Heart Sutra


>
> >'Convention' implies something negative, isn't it?
> > I don't like it.
> > How about 'traditional'?
> > Gee, it's Greek to me
> Babuza
> --------------------------------------------------------------------------
--
> -----------------------
> Babuza i-su, Lip-bun--hiaN kap Jason--hiaN peng-an!
> Dear Dr. Babuza, Dr. Levin and Mr. Jason,
>
> Goa kam-kak "conventional" kap "traditional" u chin toa e chha-piat:
>
> "Conventional" si chit e sia-hoe e seng5-oan5 hou7-siong7 "iok-teng7
> siok8-seng5 ç´å®ä¿æ" (agreed upon);
> "Traditional" si "cheng5-tai7 thoan5 loh8-lai5 e5" (handed down)
>
> "Conventional" u hou lang kam-kak u "chham-u2";
> "Traditional" chiu bo5-it-teng7 e7 hou lang kam-kak u7 chham-u2.
>
> I am of the opinion that there is a big difference between the two words
> "conventional" and "traditional," because "conventional" gives me a
feeling
> of "participation in the decision to ..." while "traditional" does not
> necessarily give me that feeling.
>
> Gu-gian kap i e bun-ji, ki-jian si sia-hoe e san-but, si bun-hoa e
iau-sou,
> lan cho hit e sia-hoe e chit hun-chu, beh kam-kak kong "conventional" a-si
> "traditional"?
> Che long ai khoaN lan tui hit e sia-hoe e jim-tong--kam.
>
> Since language and its orthography are products of a society, each
> representing a cultural phenomenon of the society, I as a member of the
> soociety may feel positive or negative toward either one phenomenon,
> depending on my feeling of participation in and the accompanying degree of
> gratification in identifying with that society.
>
> As to Latin language: Since it is a language no longer used by any
ordinary
> society except those "artificial" ones like the Roman Catholic priesthood
or
> some academic groups, which are made-up of different nationalities and
> backgrounds, there can never be a Latin language(tongue) now. However,
there
> can be a Latin in a written form.
>
> Kan-tan kong chiah e, hou tai-ke cho chham-kho.
>
> Peng-an!
>
> Koeh Tekliat
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: levin 
> > To: Jason Cox 
> > Cc: 
> > Sent: Sunday, July 29, 2001 9:12 PM
> > Subject: Re: å¿ç¶/ Heart Sutra
> >
> >
> > > taigu "levin" 
> > >
> > > taigu "levin" 
> > > Dear Jason,
> > >
> > > You are right. It's a convention. But, for me, it's a strange
> convention.
> > >
> > > When I was a student, I heard from a Latin professor, who is Spanish,
> that
> > > there are many ways of reading Latin, eg., Spanish way, French way,
> German
> > > way, Italian way. Is it so?
> > > Maybe we can also say that there are many ways to read "wen-yan-wen".
> And
> > > the "thak-chheh-im" I mentioned is the way Ho-lo-lang read it.
> > >
> > > But, in a way, this way of reading "wen-yan-wen" is a process of
> > > Sinicizing/Mandarinizing Ho-lo.
> > > And the ability to read "wen-yan-wen" this way has been regarded as a
> > talent
> > > showing somebody's degree of "education" or "civiliaztion". If you
> cannot
> > > read Han characters this way, you are treated as "illiterate", and
your
> > > language is ragarded as "vulgar'. I heard that somebody even treats
> > > "cha-pou" and "cha-bou" as "vulgar", and they use instead "lam--e" and
> > > "lu--e".
> > > Honestly, I detest the value reflected by this phenomenon.
> > >
> > > Of course, my value can be ignored.
> > > But my opinion is that we'd better not to encourage this process of
> > > confusing the Ho-lo language system.
> > > Today, in Taiwan, there are still many institutes and teachers who are
> so
> > > eager to teach young pupils to study this way of reading
"wen-yan-wen".
> I
> > > don't think it will do any good to the revival, revitalization, and
> > > development of Ho-lo or Taiwanese.
> > > My opnion is that we should leave it to the "priests". And the
Taiwanese
> > or
> > > Ho-lo-oe is already Sinicized/Mandarinized enough.
> > >
> > > Best,
> > > Lip-bun
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > From: Jason Cox 
> > > To: 
> > > Cc: 
> > > Sent: Saturday, July 28, 2001 9:28 PM
> > > Subject: Re: å¿ç¶/ Heart Sutra
> > >
> > >
> > > > taigu "Jason Cox" 
> > > >
> > > > taigu "Jason Cox" 
> > > > Lip-bun hiann,
> > > >
> > > > You are obviously right about one thing-- the Taigu reading of the
> heart
> > > > sutra is not colloquial speech, is not Taigu grammer, Taigu syntax,
> even
> > > > normal Taigu vocabulary.
> > > >
> > > > But basically, some of this early Buddhist literature is
> semi-classical
> > > > (wen-yan-wen) and doesn't belong to one dialect in particular.
> > Naturally,
> > > > like many religions appealing to the common masses, the Buddhist
> > > translators
> > > > also threw in some region's colloquial vocabulary.
> > > >
> > > > And when the sutra is chanted at a temple, especially a temple in
> > Taiwan,
> > > an
> > > > untranslated version is frequently read outloud in Taiwanese (or so
I
> > have
> > > > been told). This may not be the most effective way of reading it,
> this
> > > may
> > > > not be the best-sounding way, but it is convention.
> > > >
> > > > --Jason
> > > >
> > > > _________________________________________________________________
> > > > Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at
> > <http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp>
> > > >
> > > >
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
>
>